Mysterium Conjunctiones, or Eye-On, and this is where the real skinny is held. I don't think you can read a better book on the psychedelic experience than Mysterium Conjunctiones. And it doesn't mention psychedelics per se, but it deals with the motifs of transformation. And no, I think that if there's a relationship between psychotherapy and psychedelic shamanism, it's that psychotherapists must apprentice themselves to psychedelic shamans and must learn what they're doing, because they're doing better than one-third get better, one-third get worse, one-third stay the same. Neurosis in extremely shamanically oriented societies with a tradition of psychedelics is almost unknown. And I saw these people work in the Amazon and their intuition and their perspicacity in dealing with human situations was clairvoyant, you know? I mean, they just could go right into it. And so I think the relationship between psychotherapy and psychedelic shamanism should run the other way. To my mind, and I've made this metaphor many times, but it gives the right feeling to it, psychedelics are to the study of consciousness what the telescope in the 16th century was to the science of astronomy. And, you know, the telescope was suppressed. I mean, Galileo had to humble himself. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake. Now they want to suppress the inner telescope, the telescope that brings the stars and galaxies constellated in the human psyche up for close inspection. Well, I suspect they shall have the same fate as they had with the suppression of the telescope. They will just be looked at as pedestrian plebeian Philistines and the people who had the good sense to advocate this, people like Ralph Metzner, will be hailed as forward-looking visionaries. The only thing I would add to that analogy, I think, of the telescope is that, because the telescope, after all, is used by astronomers, a rather select, elite group of people. The average man probably never in his lifetime looks through a telescope. The significance of the psychedelic drug, in terms of enhancing our perception, expanding our consciousness, in addition to that, it does it for, has a potential for doing it for anybody, not everybody, but anybody who wants and needs it, who feels drawn to it. And so it's a tool that's unique. And this ties back to the theme I mentioned at the beginning. You know, the age of shamanic experts is over. That was the old age. I mean, there will be experts, of course. There are people who are more practiced and skilled and experienced at it. The elders, the ones who have done it the longest time, are the ones you go through for guidance and training and so forth. But it's everyone has to make their own discoveries. Everyone has to explore their own psyche. Nobody else can do that for you. And I wanted to say one other thing in relationship to your question. And I don't want you to take this in any way critical of your asking of the question, but I wanted to actually have you think about the assumption, the presupposition that underlies that question. Because you're asking us, in a way, you asked something like, should people who take psychedelics be required to undergo therapy? That's asking a question about who should or should not ingest certain substances. It's a control question. And I understand your intention is protection of people flipping out and all of that. But we shouldn't be asking anybody that question. We shouldn't be asking ourselves, basically, or anyone else that question, looking for those kind of criteria. We should take responsibility for our own path. And that will serve as an example to other people. Everyone has to find their own way. Psychedelics is not the way for everybody. There are many people who never "should" use it and who never will, and who don't need to, and who will get, quite possibly, to the same spaces as we get without that way. And my all-the-standard answer when people start asking questions about, how do I actually get there? How do I actually make that connection? Well, Terrence has given you an actual practical hint. Grow your own mushrooms. That's certainly a way to go. I tend to give a more evasive answer, which I really mean in all sincerity, which is that if the psychedelic visionary plants is going to be a part of your way, your path, you will find your way to them at the appropriate time, when needed, no sooner and no later. If your intention about it is clear and good, and that's not to say you may not make false starts and you may have some trips and decide it's not for you, that's okay, too. There's no requirement. It's everyone for himself, and yet we're all for each other at the same time. And if you're clear about your own intention and you take responsibility and inform yourself and be discriminating, do the best you can, that, by example, will spread to others. Your friends and associates and people you come into contact with will follow your example and won't need to follow your advice. But before we leave it, I have to tell a wonderful story about the telescope, which relates to what we've been talking about. The telescope seems to be a good metaphor for psychedelics. When Galileo discovered the telescope, he was not immediately slapped down by the church. It took a few months for them to even sort out what the issue was here. And then, of course, eventually he had to recant. But in the year preceding his trial, Galileo was, of course, before the invention of the telescope, well known in influential circles in Rome as an inventor and scientist, natural scientist. So in his apartment on the rooftop, he set up his telescope and would hold small garden parties for influential Roman citizens, among them great cardinals and princes of the church who were involved in deciding the issue of whether or not he was dabbling in heretical material. So one evening he had Cardinal Roncalli of the Holy Office, which is the keepers of the doctrine of the faith, and had him to dinner and said, "Excellency, would you care to look through my telescope?" And the cardinal allowed as how he would like to look through the telescope. So Galileo pointed it at the full moon, which was rising over the city, and the cardinal peered into the telescope and Galileo said, "And so, Excellency, as you see, there appear to be oceans and range of mountains on our sister world." And the cardinal looked for a long time and said, "Yes, but, Signor, surely we can agree among ourselves that this is only a hallucination." Well, it turns out they couldn't agree among themselves that it was a hallucination, and I don't think that we can agree with our establishment that what we perceive is only a hallucination. It is, and yet it isn't. It is a true hallucination. I remember once in the Amazon, a very bizarre incident. I was lying with a fever in a hut and stomach, some horrible thing had happened to me. Anyway, I was in a terrible state, and I heard these children singing outside in Spanish. And the song that they were singing, as I slowly and painfully translated it, I could hardly believe my ears, the song was, "Behold, behold, the final illusion, at last, at last, the final illusion." And this is, I think, from the point of view of historical society, what we are looking at. We are looking at the final illusion. The body of Eros, expelled from Greece, burned at Eleusis, driven out of the European mind by busy and pesky celibates, denied, repressed, cut apart, lay in wait in the mountains of the New World for the European civilization that would eventually conquer the New World. And as it burned and pillaged and raped its way deeper into the interior of the new continents that it proposed to put under European sway, at last, at last, in 1953, Gordon Wasson glimpsed the final illusion. It lay like the body of Osiris, like the body of Eros, lost since the fall of paganism, but waiting there to spread back through this proud, vain, scientific, paternalistic, male-dominated society, and to lay the seeds of its undoing, to lay the seeds of an archaic revival, of a return to the way we lived when the glaciers were melting and the game was plentiful, the way we lived when there was partnership and goddess worship and ecstasy and a sense of community and globalism. And this is what we have found. We, you remember I said yesterday that the archetype of Western society is the prodigal son, the wanderer who leaves his birthright, who leaves the comfort of the village and the bride who was planned for him, and goes out and does something tremendous and ambiguous and unimaginable and returns with the gift difficult to obtain, returns with the healing plant, the magic word, the jeweled crown, and lays it at the feet of the mother so long parted from, and by that act creates a historical closure. You'll recall at the beginning of this weekend I talked about the hexagram that had been thrown for the fate of our planet, "Work on what has been spoiled." Through the line, "Work on what has been spoiled by the father." And what has been spoiled by the father is the feminine and the planet as the exterior manifestation of the feminine, leading to the change, which is the cauldron, the alchemical vessel, the theater and laboratory of the witch's magic, the potion that transforms. And in the act of transforming nature through cooking, in the act of transforming human nature through the cooking of the historical process, we have made ourselves unrecognizable to our ancestors, even as we shall be unrecognizable to our children. But, ladies and gentlemen, this souffle is done. This pie is cooked. It's time to take it out of the oven, give the oven a rest, and spread the board. You know, with the passing of the patriarchy, I recall that wonderful line in Finnegan's Wake where Joyce says, "Grandpapus has fallen down, but Grinnie spreads the board, sunny side up, with care. If you want to be parked, if you want to be phoenixed, come and be parked, because upnayent, prospector, you're going to sprout all your worth and woof your wings." And so that's what I invite you to do, to woof your wings. Woof your wings. Woof, woof. Woof, woof. That's all I've got to say. Ralph's got to catch a plane. I'll give you one footnote to the word hallucination and hallucinogenic. Hallucination, we generally think means seeing something that isn't really there. So then Terence talks, "Well, but what about these hallucinations that are really there?" And long ago, we used to say, in the 60s, we used to say, "Well, hallucinogenic is not a good name for the psychedelic drugs because it's not a matter of seeing something that isn't there. It's a matter of seeing something that is there, but that you normally don't see." And then I looked up the original etymology of the word hallucination and found, to my interest and delight, that it comes from Latin, hallucinare, which means to wander in your mind. It has nothing to do with illusion. A hallucination is your experience in wandering through the psyche. A hallucinogenic substance or plant is one that induces you to go on a journey in your mind. And that's a very appropriate term for that. And whether what you see is an illusion, a falsehood, a mask, or what it is and what it means, that's up to each one to find out. The greatest adventure still lies ahead. [end] {END} Wait Time : 0.00 sec Model Load: 0.64 sec Decoding : 0.76 sec Transcribe: 910.04 sec Total Time: 911.45 sec